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IV   Selected Case Studies

Summary of interviews

As the interviews progressed, it became clear that although these men share the same sexual preference they are different in many other ways, including their approach to paedophilia. We decided that it would be useful to present a summary of each person in terms of the unique features of that individual’s lifestyle as perceived by the interviewer, recognising that this represents a subjective impression rather than objective data.

No. 7 ‘Rex’: 

The most interesting feature of Rex’s life is that he is the only paedophile we interviewed who is married. His wife was aware of his paedophilic interests when she married him. He provided us with a classic remark in commenting that he has come to realise that paedophiles need a good travel agent rather than a psychiatrist, which seems fairly perceptive in view of the legal restrictions that exist in some countries while not in others. In his work Rex occupies a position of some status, and the professional attitude that he must have to display there carried over to the interview.

No. 12 ‘Adam’: 

What was most obvious about Adam was his enthusiasm in discussing his paedophilic interests. More than any of the others interviewed, he seems to have declared openly his love for children, and he does not hesitate to express it when the opportunity arises, as it did in this situation. Subsequent to the interview, Adam contacted us to let us know that criminal proceedings had been brought against him and if we did not hear from him by a specific date then we should assume that he had been convicted and sentenced to prison. We did not hear from him again.

No. 19 ‘William’: 

The isolation that he experiences was very obvious throughout the interview with William. Indeed, there was almost a sense of tragedy about his present circumstances. A conviction for what appears to have been an isolated paedophilic relationship against a background of heterosexuality and a distinguished career as a teacher seems to have left William a somewhat lonely man. In his particular situation, the development of his paedophilic interests appears to have been as much situationally determined as the result of any predilection he might have had towards a sexual relationship with a child.

No. 35 ‘Eric’: 

It was obvious that Eric has done a great deal of research on the topic of paedophilia. As he is so knowledgeable about the behaviour, he was able to place his interests in a historical perspective, and throughout the interview he sup-ported things that he said with references to the existing literature on paedophilia.

No. 43 ‘John’: 

In his present circumstances, John seems to be, more than any other subject interviewed, involved in what might be described as a perfect relationship from a paedophilic point of view. In discussing his total involvement with a boy at present—a situation which exists with the parents’ tacit approval - John acknowledges the unique circumstances of the relationship. Interestingly, John was involved with the boy’s older brother previously and seems to have functioned very much as a ‘big brother’ to both of these boys.

No. 48 ‘Neil’: 

At the time that he completed the initial questionnaire, Neil had not been sexually involved with a child; however, in the period prior to the interview, he had become deeply involved with a boy in a relationship that did involve a sexual component. The concern that he felt about taking this step was apparent, as was his confusion over how such a relationship should be conducted. The degree of personal anguish he expressed over his future, if this is the direction his life will take, was obvious. If one had not known that Neil is a paedophile and was describing a relationship with a boy, it would have been very easy to assume that he was recounting the trials and tribulations encountered in any ‘first love’ relation-ship as might be experienced by heterosexuals.

No. 55 ‘Peter’: 

Peter was concerned that we should be given the ‘whole’ picture with respect to paedophilic behaviour and following his initial interview contacted us to see if he might come in again to provide us with more information, which he did. He appeared to be very much at ease discussing the paedophilic lifestyle, and he described in some detail the international scene, particularly as it occurs in countries where age of consent is not a factor, as in the Philippines. He gave the impression of being a travel agent for his paedophilic friends as his work in the airlines allows him to travel extensively and investigate circumstances in other countries. He came to the second interview with pictures, most of which he had taken himself, to give us examples of the types of boys he found attractive.

No. 62 ‘Garry’: 

Garry was one of the subjects who was somewhat suspicious of our intentions in these interviews. His particular concern was that we were interested in finding a cure for paedophilia, which emerged when he was questioned concerning his relationship with his parents. He was also one of those who was able to describe a relationship that has continued on into adult life even though the sexual component has ceased to be important. In this particular case, he is the godfather to the son of the man whom he was involved with when the latter, who is now married, was a child.

No. 64 ‘Harry’: 

Harry was the most difficult of all of the subjects to talk to. He was very hesitant to discuss his situation and was much less forthcoming concerning his behaviour than the other paedophiles interviewed. He was the only subject who did not appear to be exclusively paedophilic in his sexual orientation; rather he described himself as a sexual ‘libertarian’, which seemed to imply that his sexual activities could involve relationships with adults as well as children. In fact, the only sexual contact that Harry did not mention having been involved in was a homosexual relationship with an adult male.

No. 81 ‘Derek’: 

Derek gave the impression of being completely at ease with his lifestyle, to the extent that he lives with a boy he was involved with in a paedophilic relationship and who is now married. The wife is aware of the relationship that existed between her husband and Derek and apparently does not object to the latter’s presence in their home. Derek is also employed in a job which brings him into close contact with children; however, he avoids paedophilic encounters in this situation. He has been involved in long-term relationships of five years while at the same time visiting the Philippines for short-term experiences with boys there. In many ways, Derek seemed childlike in his behaviour and attitudes and did, in fact, describe himself as a ‘Peter Pan’ who had never grown up.

S7:  ‘Rex’

Rex is of small build and has fairly long black hair. He gives the impression of being well educated and speaks with a slight stammer which was more noticeable when he discussed more intimate details of his life as a paedophile. He became more relaxed as the interview progressed, and as he was very open in discussing his paedophilic behaviour the interview lasted for about 90 minutes. He seemed completely at ease by the end of the interview and, in fact, extended an invitation to the interviewer and Dr Wilson to have dinner with him and his wife at their home. He seemed very satisfied with the interview and it appears that paedophilia is a well integrated part of his life which includes his relationship with his wife.

When asked about his preferences among children Rex indicated that he is bisexual. In fact, his interest in children began with girls and extended to boys. The preferred age range is from 3 to 14, although for girls the ceiling age is generally about 12. When asked what it is about children what attracts him physically, Rex described ‘a kind of misdirected instinct’. Even as a child he was revolted by body hair. Besides this, he finds in children a ‘plastic beauty’ which, although some people may see as unfulfilled, he sees as perfect in itself. A ‘live agility’, ‘unselfconscious deportment’ and ‘state of unshock-ability and intense curiosity’ are also qualities attributed to children which he finds desirable. Children are seen as being quite open-minded about what they want in life; they don’t have a need to categorise things as being acceptable or unacceptable. Rex admits that this attraction is quite difficult for him to articulate, but certainly not all children would be attractive to him. When a child does begin to display body hair, and in the case of boys, their voice changes, they become sexually unattractive to Rex, although the psychological involvement is likely to remain. To be ‘let into the interior life’ of a child is described as ‘a very great honour’ as they can be very secretive.

When asked about sex with adults, Rex pointed out that he is married and so has had some heterosexual involvement. He also admits to several homosexual relationships with adult men, although he describes these as having been somewhat narcissistic in that he derived a great deal of pleasure from the idea that he could be sexually attractive to someone else. Despite these admissions his preference is for a paedophilic relationship.

At this point Rex was questioned about the effect that being a paedophile has had on his marriage. It appears that his wife was aware of his paedophilic interests before they got married three years previously. A heterosexual relationship ‘was not on my agenda’ is how Rex describes his thinking about it at the time. His wife does not share his interests but is described as being very understanding concerning his paedophilic behaviour. He says they are very happy together. Their sexual involvement is now minimal, although they ‘tried it out’ initially. ‘I could say that my wife has more of a maternal role, than in the ordinary husband and wife existence’. Rex is forty years old, while his wife is fifty-two. Their relationship appears to be quite successful as he and his wife share a great deal of their life.

Asked how much he is currently involved with children, Rex replied: ‘I’m retired, or I’m resting as they say in the acting trade.... I’ve decided that what many paedophiles need is not necessarily a psychiatrist but a good travel agent.’ He feels that the problem of paedophilia is really a geographical one which can be resolved by travelling to a part of the world where attitudes towards adult-child sexuality are different to those in Britain. Examples that he provides are the Arab sectors of Israel and the Philippines, which he hopes to visit in the future. For pornography he has visited Holland. He stresses the importance of fantasy in his life but points out that it is also very important for most heterosexuals. In this context he identifies two elements of sexuality - the romantic and the erotic. Pornography is most important in connection with the latter. It allows one to ‘make do with the next best thing’.

Other than during his visit to Israel, Rex has not been involved with any children for about six years. Prior to that he acknowledges having been involved in relationships with five boys and two girls. These would appear to have been long-term relationships, two of them having lasted five years. Rex plays down the sexual aspect of these relationships. He has never been charged with any offences in connection with his paedophilia.

Asked about his parents, Rex talked about his mother first. She is described as being possessive, neurotic, possibly a lesbian, and dominating to the extent that ‘she still sends me lists of what socks to wear’. He also feels that she has ruined his father’s life, since he is a very passive personality who has had to ‘wait on her hand and foot’. A lesbian relationship which his mother was involved in ended in 1960 when the woman died. His parents were very inhibited sexually. Rex never saw them kiss one another and words of affection between them were rare. He received little sex education from his parents.

When asked about his early sexual experiences Rex initially mentioned the idea of compulsion, or ‘making an object do what it doesn’t want to’, as being sexually stimulating. Apparently this was often focused towards babies as he describes being excited by advertisements of babies in nappies when he was a young boy. Part of the appeal seems to have been the ambivalence or uncertainty about the sex of the child depicted in this manner.

Rex’s first experiences of physical sex occurred when he was about fifteen and involved mutual masturbation sessions with other boys at school. At this school any contact with girls was discouraged and if discovered apparently resulted in expulsion. Rex claims that even as a boy he had a sexual interest in children younger than himself.

Rex feels that although paedophiles often seem very quiet, ‘in fact, sexually we are raging infernos, not of open sexuality, but of curiosity’. A great deal of sexual energy is spent in fantasising about the sexual aspects of children; he ‘swoons away on buses’ when he sees a child. ‘I’m always on the watch for children, I never give up.’ If the opportunity did come up now he would want to become involved in a paedophilic relationship. At present, however, the outlet for his paedophilic desires is limited to fantasy.

Asked about the legal restrictions on paedophilia, Rex maintained that, although the laws relating to sex between children and adults are unlikely to change, what concerns him is the effect that a paedophilic encounter may have on a child when the legal forces become involved. He feels that most of the damage is done by society, which inflicts attitudes and subsequently investigations on the child who has been involved sexually with an adult. This is what will do the child great harm and should therefore be changed.

The predatory tendency often attributed to paedophiles is seen by Rex as being a characteristic of sexual behaviour in general and is not specific to paedophilia. The idea of violence towards children is considered incompatible with the paedophilic style, which is to love children. However, the point is made that although each person is responsible for his actions, he may in fantasy engage in activities he would not actually perform in reality. For example, the idea of disciplining a child by spanking may be attractive in fantasy and yet actually punishing a child in this way would be seen as undesirable and not something he would want to do.

When it was observed that Rex seems to have integrated his paedophilic interests into his life successfully he acknowledged the support he had received from a psychiatrist, who had not tried to change him but rather had helped him to make a happy adjustment to his situation. He saw the psychiatrist during a period of depression precipitated by what he considers a missed opportunity with a young boy. He chose not to take advantage of a chance to become involved with the boy, something which he later regretted and became depressed about. He saw the psychiatrist regularly for two years, after which they parted on good terms with the understanding that he could return if ever the need arose. In fact, Rex did take advantage of this offer and contacted the psychiatrist again when the police were conduct-ing raids on P I E members.

Asked if there was anything else he would like to add, Rex offered the opinion that size, in this case the child’s, was not a crucial element in the attraction. He felt that if the individual was six feet tall and yet pubescent he would still be attractive to a paedophile. It is the nature of the child that is important. When Rex was asked if he had any idea why he had become a paedophile, he said that his childhood was somewhat deprived in that he did not share in the usual activities of adolescent development that might be experienced in youth clubs or similar organisations. As a consequence of this he feels he did not develop along the usual lines of sexual growth.

The proposition was then put to Rex that children do not know what is good for them and that they are not capable of making appropriate moral judgements. His reply was to the effect that children are very capable of making decisions about their welfare in general and this extends into the realm of sexuality. What is crucial is that any sexual act they are involved in should be done voluntarily as this ‘is part of learning, part of experience, part of experiencing things about their body, about what they are, about their personality. It may not be socially acceptable, but that’s another story altogether.’ Children are described as being amoral in that they do what they think they can get away with. Children know instinctively what is good for them, and therefore a paedophilic relationship is hardly likely to be psychologically damaging. The child must be respected and allowed to take any initiative he wants to. Rex views the child as a person rather than a ‘mere child’ and the paedophilic relationship as a two-way situation with both parties contributing and benefiting.

 S12: ‘Adam’

When Adam was initially contacted to arrange the interview the telephone was answered by a young boy whom he described as one of his young friends. During the call I heard another boy in the background and Adam interrupted our conversation several times to talk to them. He was unable to be interviewed on a Wednesday evening, as I first suggested, because he had ‘a young friend who stayed over that night’, so we arranged the interview for Wednesday afternoon. Later he phoned to change this arrangement, saying he had forgotten that it was term break and he had promised to take the ‘kids’ out for the day. Subsequently, he called again to say that Wednesday afternoon would be suitable after all, since one of the children was sick and the other was being disciplined. Through these interactions it seemed to me that Adam was an active and ‘successful’ paedophile and that he was very keen to be interviewed about it.

Adam came to the interview from work and was wearing a badge on his jacket lapel which proclaimed the desire of a charity organisation to ‘make children happy’. He was extremely relaxed throughout the interview and willing to discuss all aspects of his life as a paedophile. He sees himself as a committed exponent of the paedophilic lifestyle and accepts that his next conviction, which will be his fifth, will result in him being imprisoned for a long period. That this will eventually happen he feels is inevitable. He seems to be extremely happy in his present circumstances, expresses no desire to change and indicates that he could not imagine his life being other than as he experiences it. His enthusiasm for paedophilia is somewhat overwhelming.

Adam initially indicated that he was exclusively homosexual in his paedophilic interests. Sometimes he has sexual fantasies concerning young girls but it does not go beyond this. The age range that he finds ideal is 10-14 years with 11 being the optimum, although ‘I can take boys at ten because then you can build a relationship with them over a period of time’. Eleven is described as ‘a magical age’. ‘Most boys are either well-advanced at eleven (the ones I’m interested in) or if they’re slow starters, by the time they are eleven they know enough to make the relationship interesting for both of us. To me, boys have got to respond to what I give them.

With respect to the psychological qualities of children that he finds attractive Adam says: ‘It is difficult to explain. With children - with boys - I can talk easily. I can talk to them at their own level. I can boss them. I can be bossed by them. I can be part of them and they can be part of me. But with older people I just can’t communicate. I can talk to you here about this. I’ve had relationships with gays, but my only topic of conversation has been boys. . . . I just like talking about boys.’ Adam feels that he is on the level of the child.

When it comes to physical qualities, Adam admits that, although some children might be physically unattractive to him, he might have sex with them anyway as ‘you don’t have your ideals all the time’. The opposite may also be true, that a physically attractive child might not be sexually attractive. Specific features that he finds attractive are two large front teeth, a small nose and short hair. Body hair is disliked and once a boy reaches puberty and starts to grow body hair sex is no longer of great interest, although the relationship will continue. In this context Adam described a relationship that continued as a friendship until the boy was eighteen. ‘My interest in him sexually had died. He would perhaps want sex now and again but it would be up to him to decide when he wanted it. I wouldn’t be any longer chasing him for a sexual relation-ship. . . . If he were younger, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, then I’m hunting him all the time.’

Referring again to body hair, Adam said that he finds it ‘obnoxious and horrible’. Even the contemplation of it ‘is pretty grim’. He has had drugs in the past that have stopped hair growing on his body and it is only recently that it has begun to grow again, which he does not find appealing.

An unbroken voice is another important marker of an attractive boy. ‘Kids whose voices haven’t broken and have no body hair, they’re terrific.’ When the suggestion was made that these qualities are attractive because they make a boy more like a girl, Adam countered by maintaining that he doesn’t like boys to look feminine, as might happen with long hair. ‘I don’t like it, they look like girls. I like boys to look like boys. The tougher they are, the more masculine they are, the better I like them.’

The possibility of having sex with adult women was raised and Adam indicated that it would mean nothing to him. In fact, he is not sure that he could obtain an erection in order to have sex with a woman. A young girl might be more attractive to him, although penetration would seem unlikely. His only hetero-sexual experience was with his sister when he was about thirteen and she was eight. He sees himself as having been paedophilic since he was fourteen or fifteen. He is now thirty-nine. He has had homosexual relationships with adults, although these are described as being the consequence of friendship which has gone to sex in order to maintain the friendship. He has not derived much satisfaction from sex under these conditions.

Adam lived at home with his parents until he was thirty-eight, and only moved the previous year. He describes his mother as being domineering and interfering in all aspects of his life. His paedophilia was a separate little world I kept well away from my parents’. Adam has had four convictions for paedophilia, the last being in 1973. After this last one he received a letter from his mother which indicated that a further conviction would ‘probably kill them both’. For about five years he limited his paedophilic relationships, which he found difficult, until he moved out of home to ‘break away from all this domineering of my mother’. His mother wrote him a letter because she was unable to discuss sex, and specifically his paedophilic interests, with him in person. His father is described as being quiet, mild and gentle and ‘he never swore’. The impression was that he was very much dominated by the mother. Returning to his mother, Adam described her as a disciplinarian who dominated his life, bossing him and being ‘very hard’ on him. In spite of this he says that he loves his mother because of her domineering qualities and because she has worked very hard and ‘has really done something with her life’. His father is described as a ‘ghost’ who just wasn’t there. He apparently shared very little with his father as he grew up and their relationship seems to have been quite minimal. Sex was a topic that they never discussed and he appeared to be embarrassed by the subject. He says he has ‘never really known his sister’. She is now married, and when she last visited the parental home at Christmas Adam’s mother accused him of getting too close to her children and indicated that he should not come again the next year. Following his last conviction his sister had written him a letter stating that she did not want to hear any more of him and that she no longer considered him a member of the family.

Adam’s first conviction resulted in six months’ probation, a fine and voluntary treatment. The second involved a three-month prison sentence which was altered on appeal to twelve months’ voluntary treatment and a fine. On his third conviction he was committed to a hospital for twelve months, following which he was treated as an outpatient for fifteen years. Over this time he was on a drug programme, Stilbestral for twelve years and Androcur more recently. About six months ago he stopped taking these drugs and feels much better for it. He has also stopped seeing the psychiatrist who has been treating him for many years and now attends the Albany Trust where he receives counselling which he believes to be beneficial. In the past, he admits, he submitted to psychiatric care, not because he wanted to change his behaviour, but rather as a back-up when, and if, he was brought before the courts for paedophilic activity. He stopped the sessions with the psychiatrist, whom he saw every six weeks, in 1978. The counsellor he currently sees is concerned about his having sex with boys, although he seems to accept that Adam will remain a paedophile and will never develop normal sexual interests. Adam’s stated purpose in attending the sessions every two weeks is to make his relationships as a paedophile more satisfying and ‘better for the kids as well’. ‘I have faults, I know. I hound them too often. I have a very high sex drive and I have great difficulty in satisfying that sex drive.’

Adam revealed that at the present time he is involved with one boy who stays at his house two or three nights a week. At present he prefers to be involved sexually with one boy at a time, although other boys may be around his home. He feels this is necessary for the proper development of the relationship. When it was put to him that it must be very apparent to the neighbours that a large number of children frequent his house, Adam described a ‘Junior Club’ he runs that attracts children to his place. ‘A lot of the parents know that the kids sleep there at night-time; a lot of other people do as well. It doesn’t bother me. One of these days I’m going to be caught and I’m making the best of it while I can.’ He seems to have accepted that he will eventually be convicted again. ‘I think it quite likely that with my past convictions I will be sent to Broadmoor and I will probably get ten years.’ He admits he is very indiscreet in his enthusiasm for paedophilia. ‘I came out last year and ever since I’ve come out I’ve had this horrible tendency to talk to anybody and everybody about paedophilia, about boys, about kids, about me, about my relationships with them. . . I don’t know why. For thirty-eight years I had it locked up in a little world of my own.

Asked if a paedophile might be involved with children only on an emotional level rather than sexually, Adam said that although this might be adequate for some it would not do for him. ‘I am an extravert, I get out... I go out and find boys. I mean there are thousands of kids all over London just waiting for an adult to come along and say, “Hello, hold my hand, let’s go for a walk. . . .“ Kids want adults, kids want to have a relationship with an older person. Whether it’s sex or anything else they don’t really mind as long as they can have an adult they can turn to, somebody they can confess to.’ Although Adam claims to be intensively involved with one boy only, he gives the impression of grooming several others, and sometimes does have sex with them. Nevertheless, much of his activity with children would appear to be non-sexual in motivation and intended to make children happy or assist in their development. ‘If you just want sex with a kid then I don’t think you’re a paedophile. I like to think of myself as a person who could help kids grow up ... a teacher, a mentor, someone he can come to for advice. A person who just wants sex with kids I regard them, I’m afraid, as “dirty old men”. All my kids have one word they can use with me, “no”, and if they say “no”, that’s it, and they know this. They can use the veto if they want to.’

At this point Adam described the circumstances surrounding his third conviction which occurred when he was a youth leader involved in taking children on camping weekends. He admits to having had active sex with nineteen boys in this context, including ‘deep relationships’ with five of them. He slept with two of these boys in their own homes in circumstances in which it appeared that the mothers were aware of the situation and did not object. In the case of the boy he is currently involved with it appears that the mother is aware that he stays at Adam’s house and again she does not appear to object: ‘If the parents know that you are having this relationship, they say, well, they know it’s not a good thing, but we will do more harm to him if we break it up.’ He went on to describe a situation in 1963 in which a mother seemed to support his relationship with her boy. She allowed him to sleep in the boy’s room when he visited and would leave him in the house with the boy until very late at night while she and her husband went out. He is very sure that the mother of the boy he is currently involved with knows that he is a paedophile.

Asked what kind of relationships he has had with boys, Adam replied: ‘I have tried everything. I really leave it to the boy to decide what he wants. In 1964 there must have been seven boys that I was actively having sex with. Each one of these seven wanted it a different way. . . . One wanted anal intercourse with me, several of them were quite happy to have 69, several only wanted mutual masturbation, others were more into kissing and fondling. I left it more to the child to develop his sexual preference. I was quite happy to follow along because anything sexually with a child I’m happy with.’ Adam claims that when he is involved with a particular boy he would be hesitant to go outside of the relationship to have sex with another boy, although he might nevertheless do so if he felt the situation was appropriate. He says it is very easy to know when a child is leaning towards a sexual contact, particularly through bodily contact. If the child shies away then it is clear that he does not want any further involvement and Adam thinks that this is as far as things should go.

Discussing the role of fantasy in his sex life Adam describes his fantasies as images which he can conjure up and which relate to a very specific incident with a boy. The physical qualities of the boy are remembered in great detail. Adam believes he can do this with all the boys he has had relationships with. He describes it as a reliving of the experience. However, he much prefers the ‘reality’ of the experience to the subsequent fantasy. While he was taking drugs Adam found that he very frequently had sexual dreams about boys but the frequency has decreased since he has stopped taking them.

It was noted that Adam has accepted the likelihood that he will be arrested for his paedophilic behaviour at some time. However, he admits: ‘I do worry about it.’ When something happens between him and one of the boys, or they are being punished by their parents, he worries that they may say something that will result in trouble for him. He says he has indicated to the boys that if they feel they have to confide in their parents he would never hold this against them. What he does ask them is that they should never talk to the police, but rather let their parents go to the police if necessary. The police are described as ‘very awkward people who don’t like paedophiles’. Apparently his flat was raided by the police as part of an investigation of P I B members. A recent murder of a child was discussed in the context that it creates a tremendous strain in the paedophile fraternity. Adam declares that this is not in line with the paedophile ideal since paedophiles are people who love children and the person who committed such an act does not belong in this group.

Adam characterises himself as having been something of a predator prior to his moving out of his parents’ home and developing his present relationship. He used to travel around visiting places where children might be found, including ‘cottages’. However, he emphasises that when a child indicated that he did not want any involvement with him he would accept this and not pursue the child any further. Some men, he thinks, may be unable to stop themselves when the child indicates that he does not want to continue and may become violent with the boy at this point. When asked how many boys he thinks he has been involved with Adam estimated that he has been involved in 490 incidents with about 180 boys since he realised he was a paedophile. He says he is completely happy with his lifestyle and has no desire to change. ‘I would hate to be anything else; I wouldn’t want to be cured.’

Adam went on to discuss some of his experiences in prison. He feels himself fortunate in not having been harassed by prisoners and although treatments like aversion therapy and implants were discussed in his case, such therapies were never imposed upon him. He also described in more detail some of his ‘cottage’ relationships in which he would meet particular boys regularly in certain public lavatories. He discussed in more detail how one of these relationships developed with a boy whom he considers the best boy I have met . . . the sex we had together was everything’. He eventually ended up going home with this boy to meet his parents. He now feels it is too dangerous to attempt to pick up a boy in this manner and that a better place is the swimming baths. He identifies the crucial factor in meeting a boy as the ability to speak to the child. If you cannot do this then he feels it will always be very difficult to develop a relationship.

When asked if there was anything else he would like to contribute to the interview Adam said he would like to see P1 B more as an organisation that has the needs of children at heart and that it should be less sexual in its orientation. An effort should be made to de-emphasise the nature of the paedophile as one who has sex with children and to promote his image as a lover of children: ‘people who are interested in children as children’. The right of a child to have sex with an adult should be recognised in conjunction with their right to say no if they wish. ‘It’s children-adult relationships.’ When the issue of the vulnerability of the child was raised Adam agreed that young boys aged ten may not know what they want in a relationship and should not be forced if they are not willing. He admits to having pushed one of the boys who currently visits him towards sex before the boy was ready, so that he had to stop this aspect of the relationship.

Adam then returned to a discussion of the rules that exist between him and his boys concerning what either may or may not do and what he describes as ‘the veto’. He produced a copy of the rules operating between him and the boy he is currently most involved with. The first of these is ‘You can never touch me

- only if I say so’. The second: ‘Whenever I sleep I take turns; one night I sleep in the spare bed and one night in your bed’. The

third: ‘You must spend at least 20 pence a week on us’. Another rule, which had been crossed out, was ‘You must let me have one fag when I go to bed’. More than rules, these seem to be conditions which exist between Adam and the boy, and which have been laid down mainly by the latter.

At this point Adam produced a large amount of material which was his ‘research’ on paedophilia in the area. He appears to have investigated through local newspapers the incidence of child assaults in the South London area in order to look for patterns, e.g. geographical or sibling involvement. One of his conclusions is that the men involved in paedophilic relationships move away from the area, particularly if they have been convicted, whereas the boys continue to live and grow up in the same area. During this presentation of his ‘data’, Adam revealed that as a boy he had been involved with a number of men, the first three being one-off sexual experiences, including anal inter-course with his uncle. He had also had a much longer relationship which he found very satisfying even though it was non-sexual. He feels that his paedophilic interests were already developed even at this young age, as he had numerous sexual relationships with other boys that he enjoyed very much.

Adam thinks that the cause of his paedophilia may lie in the absence of his father, who was involved in military service during these early years. It is his experience among the boys he has been involved with that those who enjoy sex with a man often do not have a strong father, whereas boys who have a good relationship with their father do not appear to derive as much satisfaction from the sexual relationship. Of the approximately 180 boys that he has been involved with, Adam thinks that only about two have developed a homosexual lifestyle. This belief is based on evidence obtained by following many of them up through different registries. He maintains that the aspect of ‘sharing and giving’ developed in a paedophilic relationship may enhance a male’s ability to function in a heterosexual relationship when that occurs in later life.

 S19: ‘William’

William was interviewed in the house where he rents a room. In his mid-fifties, he is of stout build and has a white beard. Having been convicted for being a paedophile, he showed no hesitation in talking about his situation as he said he has nothing to hide. He gave the impression of a man who is saddened by his current circumstances and whose abilities were being wasted. Once apparently a good teacher, he is now limited to tutoring private students. Since his conviction his life has changed completely and he appears to be a very lonely and isolated individual.

Initially the interview focused on William’s life as a teacher. Both his parents were teachers and he followed them into the profession; as a result his life has been ‘among children’. His involvement with P I B occurred only recently. He discovered his interest in children ‘I suppose in the course of my work, especially when I went to teach in boarding school, where one isn’t just teaching children, one’s living with them. I was a family man, I had three children. That in itself made me see what children are made of, what they are all about, and how they work really. And then my marriage broke up and I rather threw myself into this boarding school job, perhaps to forget the recent pain of my situation. I became 100 per cent involved in the school.’ As far as he is aware his affection for children did not contribute to his marriage breaking up as ‘nothing actually occurred beforehand’.

The children that most appeal to William are those around twelve years of age, ‘round about the time when they become reasonable human beings and you can talk with them’. His personal relationships with children came through his work as a teacher. He has only had one relationship which became sexual. ‘It was in fact a love affair’ with a child at the school where he taught. It lasted for a year until it was discovered by the child’s father who was a judge. This ended his career as a teacher although not as a tutor; ‘under the peculiar laws of this country one’s allowed to tutor privately, individually in children s own homes, yet they won’t allow me to teach in a class of forty screaming kids’.

This relationship occurred seven years after the break-up of his marriage: ‘I suppose my life was missing something.’ The school where he was teaching was in the country and very isolated; there were few females around with whom he could socialise. ‘I suppose that being a susceptible person to this kind of thing, as I probably am, this was likely to happen eventually, and it did happen.’ The relationship was seen by William as also fulfilling for the boy, who was the son of elderly parents who lived in Africa, and with whom he did not get on very well. He is described as ‘simply missing any kind of family life’. He was a loner who did not get on well with his friends, which is seen as another reason ‘why he turned to me’. ‘Well, I say it came from him, but in fact I’m quite sure he wouldn’t have attempted anything if he hadn’t been fairly sure that a response would be forthcoming. It is very hard to say how a thing like this starts. It grows. I had known him for four years before anything like this happened at all.’ William and the boy had shared a close relationship which grew out of their mutual interest in music. The father was not supportive of the boy’s musical interests. ‘There were lots of other boys like him, but this is the only one where this other thing, this extra element, entered.’

After a year the relationship was discovered and a court case ensued. William was only fined as he received ‘fantastic backing from other members of the staff, little boys and parents, who all came to speak up for me in the court’. As a consequence of his conviction William was debarred from teaching by the Ministry of Education. He expressed great concern about the boy who ‘must have felt terribly guilty about the whole thing’. Not being able to see the boy after the incident was very hard for William. In fact, he did sneak into the school one night to talk to the boy about what had happened. Although he realised this was some-what foolish, he wanted to make sure that the boy was all right.

After being banned from teaching in schools he returned to university for a year (financed by a former headmistress), but did not enjoy this and stopped. In the next year he turned his car into a mini-cab which he drove for one year. Gradually he took on tutoring and at present has approximately forty students. The relationship mentioned above is the only sexual experience William has had with a child. With respect to the children he now coaches he says: ‘I am frequently very much attracted to them, although I wouldn’t let anything happen obviously because of the possible consequences.’ He acknowledges that he might be involved with a child again. ‘I wouldn’t say it’s impossible; it could happen. I only hope for my sake it doesn’t, because one can’t always control these things no matter how hard one tries.

William is very critical of the law as it exists at present because it does not distinguish between paedophilia and child molesting. Tradition, particularly Christianity, is blamed for producing this taboo. William’s opinions regarding the issue of the age of consent formed the basis of a letter published in Forum magazine. He believes that if anyone abuses a child or any person the laws are there to deal with the situation and there need not be special laws to deal with children. The age of consent should be abolished. Abuse of children might well be dealt with more severely as far as William is concerned. ‘I think the whole thing about sex with children has been built up in the image of adult sex. However, sex with children is very much simpler and it can be more on the surface, it needn’t be such a soul-searing operation as it is with grown-ups. It can just be physical, but obviously it wouldn’t happen at all if there wasn’t a mental bond between the people taking part. I think there is a great gap which has been put between sexuality and anything else, which is unnatural. It is simply an extension of friendship in one particular direction. It’s just another way a friendship can go.’ In his own case, William would admit to having had many deep relationships with children in which sex did not ensue, although if it had seemed natural then he states: ‘I can see no reason why it shouldn’t take place, providing the child knows. This probably happened in my own case. One’s really got to put the child wise as to the difference between one’s own views on the subject and the world’s view, which is very different. That’s an enormous difficulty.’ Even if the age of consent were lowered William believes there would still be tremendous prejudice against paedophilia just as there is with respect to homosexuality, despite changes in the law. According to William, the impact of a paedophilic relation-ship on a child would depend partly upon what the child had been told by his school-friends, partly on how much he could accept of what the adult told him, and how he could adjust to this in the context of what his parents had told him. In most cases the relationship would not work because the child would be under too much external pressure. At this point William focused on the rights of the parents when a child is being influenced by an adult. He states: ‘I really think that the parents should have rights in this matter. It may seem strange my saying so, but I think they should because I’ve been a parent myself. In fact, it very nearly happened with one of my sons. He followed my footsteps; both he and I were choristers in the same cathedral. It has a very small boarding school and one of the choirmen rather took a fancy to him at one point. My wife was very upset. I went down to see him. . . . Parents should have a right over what their children do to a certain extent. I think they’ve got a bigger right than the police.’ In William’s case, the father of the boy he was involved with requested the police not to prosecute, though they still chose to do so.

With respect to the possible long-term consequences of a paedophilic relationship, William began by describing his own relationship. ‘I was very careful to tell this particular boy just what I considered the long-term effects to be, I said that I regarded being homosexual as a natural stage through which most children went. Some boys become fond of girls at a very early age, but I think most children go through a homosexual stage simply because the other person is like themselves. Sexuality is usually in three stages: first with themselves and then with another person who’s like themselves and then eventually graduating to the other sex. Personally, I believe that if a particular child is oriented in this way a proper homosexual relationship like this will, in fact, help him later on. It will help him relate. After all, he will know much more about it - he’s been made love to by another male and he will have a lot more knowledge about what his wife or girlfriend is going to feel. The phase of homosexuality is a natural part of life.’

Fantasy now plays a very important role in William’s sex life. He finds a number of his pupils very attractive but has decided ‘it is much safer to fantasise’. However, he finds this outlet less than totally fulfilling. At the present time William’s social life is very limited as he has to work seven days a week in order to make a living. He admits to using fantasy about young boys most evenings. After his wife left him (for her psychiatrist whom she has since married), he said he went on having sexual fantasies about her for years. This he describes as his last deep relationship. He and his wife are still good friends and she apparently feels some guilt over what has happened to William, believing that he would not have got into trouble had she not left him. On his part he attempts to allay her concern by taking the position that his paedophilic interests were probably latent and would have surfaced in time anyway. William considers the desire to be latent in most people to some degree but is suppressed because it is considered to be wrong. When his relationship with the boy developed he felt elation similar to that which he experienced in his relationship with his wife. In the future he could see himself being involved in a heterosexual relationship. The opportunity had arisen in the recent past but he did not find himself attracted to the women in question. At present, his fantasies are mainly, although not entirely, homosexual.

In his tutoring of children William seeks to develop deep relationships. These are not sexual, although he describes how the use of touch, just a minimal physical contact, can be effective in making a child ‘open up’. He sees this as something which children enjoy and frequently do not experience even from their own parents. However, ‘sex doesn’t enter my head at all’. The only time that sex would be involved would be in fantasies, but these do not occur when he is with the children, rather when he is alone.

Discussing the attractiveness of children and considering whether a paedophilic relationship could continue into an adult homosexual relationship, William thought this unlikely because at a certain age children ‘become men’. They develop body hair and their voice changes and they thus cease to be physically attractive. ‘Teenage boys tend to look and feel a bit more like women than men do, so from that point of view it is less likely to happen - unless one is an out and out homosexual.’ Although the physical attractiveness of the child fades, the friendship should still remain. William’s parents were elderly when he was born, his mother being forty-four and his father sixty-two. He feels this may have something to do with his current situation. He was sent to boarding school at an early age where he had his first sexual experiences with other boys. He feels that he only got to know his mother when he was an adult.

William saw a psychiatrist twice in connection with his paedophilia but this was only on the advice of his solicitor who thought that if he was in therapy it might help him in court. He himself did not find it beneficial in any way and he has not sought any help since then.

He originally joined P1 B so that he might communicate with others who shared the same interests. He did make some worthwhile contacts through the organisation although he doubts that it will survive. He is currently writing a book which describes his own situation.

William describes paedophilia as one of the ways that a child can learn to live outside of his family. In his opinion it will take many years for first the law and then public opinion to change. He believes that paedophilia will be the last of the taboos to go, ‘even beyond incest’.

S35:  ‘Eric’

Eric is in his early thirties and is extremely youthful in appearance. He is very knowledgeable on the topic of paedophilia having done extensive research on the subject. He displayed no hesitation in discussing his interests and we were left with the impression of an extremely sensitive individual who, although satisfied with his lifestyle, is disturbed by the censure he receives from society.

Eric indicated that both young boys and young girls were attractive to him but it became clear that the homosexual interest was predominant. ‘Right from the age of ten I’ve realised that I was interested in other ten-year-olds physically, just boys at that stage - not girls at all. I continued through ages eleven, twelve, and thirteen to be interested in boys my own age, and then at about fifteen or sixteen I began to realise that I was no longer interested in my peers; I was still interested in those younger ones - twelve, eleven and ten. The nature of the feeling began to seem different to me then as well. I began to be much more affectionate towards these little boys, whereas it had been a sort of rough horse-play thing with lads my age, a thing between equals if you like. It was still only with boys; I never thought about girls at all at the age of fifteen or sixteen, or even up through university days.’ It was only when he saw ‘little girl mags’ that he felt any attraction towards girls, although he has never felt the desire to be involved with adult women.

Whereas he has always wanted to have relationships with little boys this has not been the case with females. It appeared that little girls serve as a sexual stimulus when they look like little boys, e.g. in jeans rather than a dress. ‘For me there is a whole lot of meaning invested, in a fetishistic sense I suppose, just in seeing a pair of boy’s shorts or a school cap, or even a chopper bicycle. I’m almost erotically stimulated by a chopper bicycle, which takes a bit of doing, but not by girls’ things left around; they don’t do anything at all. I’m not very keen on dresses, but to see a little girl in blue jeans, looking not very different from a little boy, that’s more of a turn-on. I suppose I like boyish-looking little girls.’ Any similarity between a little girl and an older woman is seen as making the former less attractive. However, he was concerned not to give the impression that there is hostility on his part towards young girls. In his career as a teacher he felt he got along very well with the girls in his class and thought they were fond of him.

When questioned about the age range that he finds attractive, which was given as 2-14 on the questionnaire, Eric responded by focusing on the obvious issue that two might seem extremely young to most people. With respect to the possibility that he might be turned on sexually by a person of such a young age he states: ‘I, for whatever reason, am not turned on by the idea of sexual penetration. I don’t think I would be very good at it, I certainly have never been very good at it with adult women. I don’t find it particularly satisfying, and where boys are concerned I’ve never been turned on by the idea of anal intercourse. It just doesn’t grab me at all. Similarly with girls, coitus at any age doesn’t seem particularly attractive, so there’s no question of me being interested in screwing two-year-old girls or anything silly like that. On the other hand, I do feel a touching, caressing type of attraction to really young children, certainly. I conceive of it as almost a parental type of attraction rather than that between lovers.’ An eleven-year-old boy would be responded to in different ways to a two-year-old boy, as the former would be assumed to be more sexualised (i.e. erections and masturbation). The idea that a person might be sexually arousable is, in itself, a turn-on. Since children will not be active sexually until perhaps nine years of age, children under this age are seen as less of a sexual object.

The physical attractiveness of children is the aspect that is of primary concern to Eric. However, ‘if you are sexually drawn to somebody then it has a spin-off effect, inducing you to think of all sorts of other things.’ These would be the psychological qualities of the child. In Eric’s case, then, the process is very much a progression from physical, sexual attraction towards psychological involvement.

The physical changes associated with puberty are seen as a turn-off. In his own life Eric has not had a relationship that has been sustained for such a long period that he has become aware of the onset of puberty. ‘Paedophiles rarely have the luxury of a relationship which continues uninterrupted by outside factors over a long time, and it hasn’t happened to me.’ He would expect that a boy would be most attractive sexually prior to puberty and this would diminish at puberty. There would be a gradual tailing-off of physical attachment, although an emotional relationship would continue.

In his questionnaire Eric had indicated that, in his experience, children often need affection and that in that sense the role of the paedophile is somewhat paternalistic - providing what the child wants. He admits, however, that ‘the paedophile may some-times want to see it that way a bit too much. In his own wish to be wanted he projects that kind of thing on to the child - that they need it when possibly they don’t’. In his own experience he has had a relationship with a child who appeared to have a good relationship with his parents, receiving plenty of attention from them. Yet, at the same time, Eric felt that the boy was attracted to him and enjoyed spending time with him. Thus he conceded that it is not always deprived children who become involved with paedophiles.

With respect to the possibility of having sex with adult women Eric recounted how at the age of seventeen he became concerned that he was not developing an interest in girls and sought medical advice. It was not that he wanted to be less interested in boys, just to be more interested in girls. The doctor’s advice was ‘to go away and practise’. After having a number of girlfriends with whom he was involved sexually it was his conclusion that he did not enjoy the experience and gave it up. Adult men have even less attraction for him than do women, although ‘they are both so low on the scale of attractiveness that there is little to choose between them’. His sexual interests appear to be exclusively paedophilic.

In discussing his parents, Eric described his mother as the one he was closest to. Their relationship was an affectionate one. He describes her as the ‘classic type of mother figure that is associated with homosexuality’. In describing his father he claimed ‘a great admiration and regard’ for him. However, he could never remember his father being affectionate towards his mother and he was aware that they slept in separate beds. He feels this may have something to do with his own sexual orientation, as there were never any conventional models for him. His parents did not discuss sex with him and seemed embarrassed by the kind of scenes one would see occasionally on the TV. His brother was described as having been a great influence in his life as he was ‘aggressive, overbearing, clever, strong, all the sorts of things I wasn’t.... I modelled myself on him.’ Although his brother did not appear to have any girlfriends until he was nineteen, he would seem to have developed heterosexually.

Eric’s first experience of sex was masturbation, using as a stimulus the images of naked boys. This began around the age of ten or eleven. As a boy he was involved with other boys in mutual sexual exploration. When he began teaching at the age of eighteen, he was concerned about his ability to remain detached from the young children in his classes. However, he was able to avoid any relationships and subsequently went to university. During this period he was not sexually active in any way. Upon finishing his degree he went back into teaching, but this time he found it more difficult because the desire to make sexual contact with children seemed stronger. Although he got along well with the children socially, he found himself very inhibited in speaking to them in any way about sex. This he attributed, in part, to how he felt he would have reacted as a child if an adult had discussed sex with him. He had never had a sexual relationship with an adult when he was a boy and felt, at the time, that most children would consider such an event quite distasteful. Gradually, through reading about other cultures and particularly as the consequence of a trip to North Africa, he found he has become more relaxed in discussing sex with children, although some inhibitions still remain.

Eric’s inability to get close to children has been very difficult for him. At the age of nineteen he became involved with women partly because of a desire to be a ‘Dad’ and have his own children. He describes very strong ‘maternal/paternal’ feelings. At this stage of his life loneliness is less of a problem as he has been able to express his views through P1 E in a way that has given him a great deal of satisfaction. Because of the difficulty he experiences in getting close to children physically, fantasy now plays an important role in his sex life. ‘I’ve got to the stage where I’m virtually reconciled to my sexual life being conducted on a fantasy level, but I’ve accommodated and don’t worry about it that much. I don’t get desperate or suicidal, as I once did, partly because I have had one or two relationships which have been very rewarding.’

At present, Eric has no desire to change his sexual orientation, although he admits ‘there may be something irrational there’. ‘My sexual orientation has something very sort of basic and physically crude about it. Well that’s fine, I’m neither proud nor ashamed of that. It just is. But apart from that, I feel very fortunate in perceiving something about children that other people don’t see; I mean on an aesthetic level.’

In answer to the argument that children don’t know what is good for them, Eric stressed two points. Firstly, he maintained that no attention is given to the development process that children go through. A two-year-old, he claimed, is treated in law the same as a twelve-year-old, yet the latter is obviously further along developmentally. ‘Children do develop over time and any good system ought to incorporate that.’ Secondly, he argued that while children need to be protected from harming themselves by placing certain restrictions on them (e.g. telling them not to play on the streets) these restrictions should be kept to a minimum so that the child may grow and gain experience. The fundamental misconception, he says, is the view that sex is a dangerous thing against which children need to be protected. ‘I don’t think it is. The kind of sexual behaviour I have in mind (masturbation, kissing, caressing, cuddling, oral licking and so on) is perfectly harmless. I don’t think a rational capacity needs to be developed in order for a child to say, “Well that may not do me any good.” It won’t do any harm anyway. When it comes to penetrative sex and physiological capacities and so on, there I think people have a point, and it’s a pity that the two issues get confused.’ Eric believes that boys involved in homosexual relationships with men still tend to grow up in a conventional way, usually becoming heterosexual in their orientation.

To Eric, the paedophilic relationship is one based on attraction rather than hostility and therefore the idea of engaging in violence towards a child is seen as undesirable. It is a matter of definition. ‘If you define paedophilia as sexual involvement with a child regardless of whether or not it is based on love, you could then classify many brutal, sadistic, murderous acts as paedophilia, but I don’t think the term warrants that.’ In Eric’s view the term should be reserved for affectionate contacts.

Eric is not contemplating any treatment for his sexual preference because he does not want to change and he is not impressed with the position that psychotherapists take on paedophilia.

543: ‘John’

On his initial questionnaire John had indicated that he would not be available for an interview as his circumstances did not allow for the possibility of contacting him. However, following an interview given by a friend of his, he did make contact and an appointment was arranged. He was very relaxed throughout the interview and seemed completely at ease in discussing his situation. John is twenty-eight years old, small in stature, with shoulder-length hair and a beard. He indicated initially that his preference in children is exclusively homosexual, specifically boys between 10-15 years of age with ‘thirteen as a peak’. However, this could vary in individual cases. ‘If you were to line say ten kids up, the ones that would be most attractive would be the ones at puberty.’ An older boy would be attractive only if he had ‘the body and looks of a younger kid’.

Asked about the characteristics of boys that attract him John stated: ‘I think I can really sum it up in one word. It may seem difficult to a lot of people to understand, it’s just “beauty”. It’s something unique about a kid; a sort of physical beauty of that particular type of being.’ Lack of facial hair, the right shape -not fat or too skinny - are, according to John, important physical variables. When asked to describe the ideal thirteen-year-old boy, John indicated that he would be blond, probably blue-eyed, have longish hair, not fat, well-shaped, not too tall or too short and have no facial hair.

It was noted that John had a beard. He indicated that the importance of not having facial hair is specific to children. A beard on a man was irrelevant; it didn’t matter one way or the other.

Psychologically, the innocence of the child is important. ‘I like to feel that I can develop the personality of a kid, if I’m involved in a relationship. I like to try and bring out the qualities I believe in, in that particular kid. I mean if a kid hasn’t got those qualities, unless he’s got a really nasty character I think you can bring it out because a kid is sort of innocent. I think you can help to develop that kid’s personality and character according to the type of things you believe in yourself - the honesty and the loyalty and the good manners. To me that is part of the ‘lob”, if you like, to try and develop the character of that kid to how you think a reasonable, decent human being ought to be. . . . These days there is a danger that kids tend to go off on their own. They tend to have outside influences mainly from kids of their own age that they get with and I think there is a danger, particularly these days, that kids tend to go off along the wrong path. When I say the wrong path I mean what seems to me a decent sort of character - someone who’s going to fit into the world later on.... Parents don’t really know that much about their kids and quite often are not interested enough to want to develop the characters of the kids. In my experience with the few kids I have been involved with, I feel that at the end of the day I have achieved something and I can see part of my character in them. If you believe in yourself as regards what you think is right and a decent human being, there is a sense of achievement at the end of the day to see those characters coming out in the kid... You help him to find his level and combine what you consider to be decent characteristics. I am only talking about basics, honesty, loyalty, good manners. There are so many kids these days that don’t have a clue how to say “thank you” or “please”. They demand. I don’t believe in that sort of thing.’

John’s sexual history appears to have been exclusively paedophilic. He has no interest in having sex with an adult. ‘Obviously everyone’s entitled to do what they want to do as far as I’m concerned, although personally there’s no appeal at all.’ As an adolescent he did experience some heterosexual involvement, but he attributes this to circumstances which demanded this type of behaviour in order to appear normal. In those instances in which women were attracted to him (which has happened several times in the last few years) he found it necessary to retreat from any sexual involvement. Paedophilic interests are traced back to at least the age of eleven. ‘I’ve always been interested in kids for as long as I can remember.’ Always this interest was directed at children younger than himself. As he grew older, the age of children he was interested in tended to remain static at the 10-15 age group. ‘It’s always been there.’ He has never been involved in a relationship with an adult male, not even as a child.

He is currently living at home with his stepmother and a mentally retarded adopted brother. His father died last year. His mother ran off with a lodger when he was thirteen. Through his father’s remarriage, when he was fifteen, he acquired two stepsisters. They both have families and he gets along well with them. He is not sure if they know about his paedophilic interests, but if they do, it does not seem to affect their relationship. He considers his mother and father to have been ideal parents, with no apparent marital problems until the time that his mother left. This came as a great shock to him. He has not seen her since, although his aunt is in touch with her. He can’t understand why she did this and thinks she did the wrong thing. He finds his stepmother difficult to get along with, but then so do the rest of her relatives. His father is described as a ‘fine chap’. He did not think his parents knew about his paedophilic interests, although they were aware of an unsealed letter which he received containing paedophilic material.

John does not discuss his paedophilic interests with other people because the risk of non-acceptance is too great. The reaction of others is seen as ‘natural’. ‘I think I would react the same way if I had kids, because it’s a natural reaction. Many people need time to sit down and look at the facts. It’s very pleasant if you do meet someone with kids that appears to appreciate the situation. If they see you getting along well with their kids and the kids really like you, it’s nice to get parents who are prepared to sort of let things develop.’

John then described a relationship he is currently having with a boy whose older brother he had been involved with previously. ‘The parents must be well aware of the situation,’ he said. ‘One kid at the moment is head over heels and won’t leave me alone. They appreciate that, and just take it. They even consider him as being virtually mine now. The mother is so fantastic about it and whether she really knows the whole story I don’t know, but she just seems to accept anything and everything because she is trying to do what’s best for her kids. I think she realises through what’s happened with another member of the family that naturally no harm has come to the kid.’

Within John’s own family sex was never discussed. His initial heterosexual experience, at the age of eleven, was not distasteful in any way, but was not followed up because of his paedophilic preference.

Sexual fantasies do not appear to play an important part in John’s sex life, although when they are used they are exclusively paedophilic. ‘I might recap on certain things that happened at school, perhaps, incidents and situations. It will always be the same type of fantasy, based on the same type of scene.

Over his life, John has been involved in two major paedophilic relationships - the two brothers mentioned above. He was involved with the older boy for six years, starting from when the boy was nine years old. Asked if the relationship was sexual he said: ‘Oh yes, but not completely. The sexual aspect of it was not a full sexual relationship, it was as much as either party wanted. It certainly wasn’t forced. The physical relation-ship ended when the boy was sixteen, at which time he became interested in girls. That boy is now twenty-one. John, however, expected that his own interest in the boy would have declined at about that age anyway. ‘You are expecting a mutual collapse, a slow collapse.., at that stage. When he became interested in females, I was very much still interested in him, which was a problem, but I’m not sexually attracted to him now.’ Although no longer sexually attracted, John feels that they still get along very well - like they always did. To that extent, he will always be interested in him.

At present John is involved with the younger brother of this boy who is now twelve. This relationship began when the boy was nine years old. There was about a year’s lapse between the ending of the first and the beginning of the second relationship. The older boy is aware that John is involved with his younger brother and seems to encourage it. This is attributed to the deep relationship that they had.

In response to the concern expressed by some that a paedophilic relationship will have a damaging effect on the child, John’s reaction was ‘Rubbish’, although he did acknowledge that it is a hypothetical question as one cannot know how the child would have grown up otherwise. ‘Personally, I can only see that good could have come out of it.’ In his case the boy with whom he was first involved now appears to have developed normal heterosexual interests. With respect to the argument that such a child might become homosexual he feels that such desires are there from birth and as such are not affected by experience.

John did not admit to any other paedophilic relationships, not even of a ‘one-off nature. ‘To my way of thinking if you are involved with someone you’ve got a duty to that person; it’s a mutual duty.’ He believes there must be commitment to the relationship on both sides. Problems such as jealousy will arise and will need to be dealt with. ‘I think that jealousies help to knit the relationship closer than it was before.’

The point was raised that in order to satisfy paedophilic interests it might be necessary to travel abroad to countries where the laws concerning sex between adults and children are not as strict as they are in England. John expresses the desire that as much as possible he would hope to be able to continue his paedophilic lifestyle here in England. When the relationship he is currently involved in ends, ‘which it inevitably will’, he would look to develop another relationship here, ‘despite, in my mind, some of our crazy laws’.

Part of a paedophilic relationship will be the recognition that at some time relationships will end, at least physically. The paedophile will grow older while the boys who are found desirable will still be 11—15 years old. ‘I think one’s just got to be prepared for the end of a relationship. Growing old does bother me, I must admit. I worry about what I’m going to do the next time around.’ John is therefore resolved to enjoy the situation as it exists and to worry about the future when it arrives.

With respect to his present relationship, John is able to see the boy really as much as he wants, probably five times a week, as he does so with the family’s endorsement. ‘I feel that I’ve got a job to do, that’s the way I look at it. I teach him; I spend no end of hours teaching. His schooling has improved phenomenally in the last year. Virtually every night when I’m down there I make him work. His parents have no practical involvement in his schooling; I’ve taken over all that. I even go up to the school to see the teacher with his mother. As far as the parents are concerned, they have given that side of it to me as a responsibility because they can see that I’m genuinely interested.’ Asked how he and the boy found time to be alone, John replied that he was fortunate in that the father spends a lot of time out in the evenings at the pub, while the mother is involved in Bingo and community work. The older boys in the family are also involved in pub activities while the daughter has a part-time job in the evening. This leaves the two of them alone quite frequently in the evenings. ‘When it’s time for him to go to bed then I’ll go up and talk with him, or he’ll read to me. We get a fair bit of time together at weekends.’ John appreciates the special and almost ‘ideal’ situation in which he is involved. He feels well protected legally as he doesn’t believe that the family would ever take action against him. He and the boy’s mother get along very well. However, he perceives the grandmother as ‘the sort of woman, unfortunately, who would do something stupid.’ Therefore, recognising the delicacy of his position, he is at pains to persuade her that the relationship is ‘concrete and loving’.

If the legal restrictions against paedophilia were removed in Britain, John thinks it would make no difference to the relationship he is currently enjoying. However, it would be expected to influence future relationships. ‘I can go as far as I want to now. Mutually we do what we want to do. Maybe it’s illegal, but we do. It just happens, and that’s it. But certainly in other circumstances, and with other people, and next time round for me, that could certainly make some difference. It depends on the attitude of the people you are actually involved with. I mean, parents are so varied. I certainly wouldn’t do anything the kid didn’t want. Providing the kid was consenting, and wanted something to take place, then I would do it irrespective of the legal system. If the child is consenting then I think one finds a way of getting round the law.’

When it was put to him that children may not be capable of deciding what is good for them, particularly with respect to sexual matters, John answered: ‘If a kid is keen and interested to do a particular thing, then as far as I’m concerned that’s as near as you can get to not making up the child’s mind for him. You’re not forcing him into anything. Certainly I don’t. If he wants to do it (a particular thing or whatever) then that’s fine. If he doesn’t want to do it, then in his eyes it’s wrong, and OK, that’s fine. But normally that’s not the case as kids usually are very interested in experimenting and doing things. . . . If the kid genuinely wants something, that’s as near as you can get to saying that that’s right for that kid.’ Asked if he believes that children know what they want sexually, he replied: ‘Some certainly. In my former relationship it was the kid himself who was doing all the prompting. It was he who was taking the initiative. I was following suit because I wanted to. I don’t think you can generalise. Kids are very much influenced by adults. I think kids have to be moulded to a certain extent. . . . The kid’s mind is there to be developed.’

The thought of using coercion does not appeal to John. For him the sexual aspect of a relationship comes only after respect has been developed. ‘You have to be emotionally involved.’

John’s feelings about being a paedophile are rather mixed. He acknowledges that he ‘would rather have been born as the majority’, because ‘it’s easier to explain yourself. ‘But having been forced into this situation, I’ve got to live with it and I’m quite happy. I feel genuinely that I’ve got a job to do.’

John does not believe that there is any useful professional treatment for his condition, and if one did exist, the decision as to whether or not to enter into it would be very difficult. It would be hard for him to know whether as much satisfaction as he is currently obtaining could be derived from other types of relationships. He could not envisage entering into a heterosexual relationship, except perhaps with a female paedophile.

John is currently rather fearful of prosecution. The recent police raids were a difficult time as his name was on the P I E mailing lists. He removed all incriminating materials from his house in anticipation of a police visit. If they arrived and were unable to find any concrete evidence he felt he would be able to maintain his innocence. He has withdrawn from P I E, although he supports what they are doing.

In present circumstances John feels he must accept what he has and enjoy it while he can. ‘Quite what happens in three or four years I don’t know.’ He has been offered jobs in London that would improve his financial status considerably but he prefers to stay in his small town so that he can pursue his present relationship.

S48:      ‘Neil’

Neil is a young man of average build. He came to the interview straight from his work as a civil servant and was well dressed in a three-piece suit. Although he seemed rather guarded initially, he loosened up as the interview progressed and became quite forthcoming concerning his paedophilic interests, such that the interview lasted for almost two hours. It emerged that he had been somewhat hesitant about the interview as he thought that perhaps he was being ‘set up’. By the end of the interview he said that he had enjoyed the opportunity to talk with someone who was neither paedophilic nor condemning of paedophilia, as was his usual experience.

Asked about his preferences among children Neil indicated that it would be ‘90 per cent boys, although I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of a relationship with a girl as well’. The age range which is most attractive is 10-18, with the ideal age being twelve. When asked about the characteristics of children that he finds attractive, Neil replied, ‘In the first instance it would be their beauty.’ More specifically, the physical qualities would be the lack of body hair, the voice and the face (described as being smooth, unmarked and innocent in appearance). Psycho-logically, innocence and warmth are desirable in a child. ‘Children catch your affection in a very touching, moving way.’ The openness and lack of inhibition displayed by children is also enjoyed. ‘One’s talking about qualities that must disappear once the child matures, so you’re talking about something very transient.’ In that respect being a paedophile is admitted to be ‘essentially futile; the more emotionally involved one is the more one is going to lose. I suppose it is worse than the loss a parent feels when the child grows up and leaves home.’

Neil believes that children often enter into relationships because they are seeking love and affection which are not forthcoming from their parents, although it may also happen just because they welcome a relationship with another adult. A paedophilic relationship may fill a need that the child has at that particular time; it does not necessarily mean that the child is deprived.

Neil would not rule out the possibility of having sex with an adult over the age of eighteen. However, when asked if his preference would be for a paedophilic relationship, he said: ‘My preference would be for a relationship with somebody who is about twelve, that’s my preference for a relationship. . . . In terms of sexual relationships it might be just as appropriate to say someone about eighteen as someone about twelve. If one is talking about a relationship as a whole then I prefer the younger person.

Neil describes his parents as having been very strict with him. ‘Sex was never discussed at all.’ The first time it was mentioned was when his parents discovered he had a ‘crush’ on a boy at school. Although he argued with his parents, he says that he got along reasonably well, ‘even after the upset over the boy at school’. This particular boy was twelve while Neil was eighteen. This was described as a sentimental rather than a sexual relationship, but even so his parents were very disturbed by it. They are not aware of the development of his paedophilic interests since then. With respect to his schoolboy crush Neil adds: ‘I must point out that the boy himself had no idea of the strength of my feelings, I felt that it was impossible to tell him.’

Neil seemed reluctant to discuss his early sexual experiences as he did not see them as being relevant to the interview. It appears that his first sexual experience occurred before he was twelve and involved a girl. He says of it: ‘It doesn’t seem to have had much of an effect. . . there was nothing fantastic about it.’ Neil indicated on his questionnaire that the relationships he had had with children were only emotional. This is no longer true, for one of his long-standing relationships has since turned into a sexual one.

Asked to talk about his relationship in more detail, Neil indicated that this was difficult for him to do in a semiformal situation. He first saw the boy in a park but was too embarrassed to approach him. He saw him again several weeks later in the same park and this time the boy approached him. ‘For the first few months he was just as much interested in my money as a relationship . . . so at that stage I found it rather a harrowing experience, as he kept on demanding money.’ When Neil tried

to stop paying out money the boy decreased the amount of contact they had for several months. Eventually Neil put him ‘back on the money’ and the boy began to come around and see him. ‘It was a few months after that we actually had sex.’ The relationship has deepened over the last six months and Neil expects it to last for some time. The boy is presently thirteen and since he lives just around the corner it is convenient for Neil to see him frequently. The boy’s parents know that their son is friendly with Neil but ‘obviously they do not know how far it has gone - they wouldn’t like that.’ He doesn’t feel that the boy’s parents are concerned about their friendship as there are no indications that the boy ‘is developing in an undesirable direction’. As well as seeing Neil, the boy is going out with girls, which probably allays any suspicions the mother might have. Their relationship is described as being very active as they see each other every weekend. Neil feels that the boy enjoys their relationship, although he is not sure how he views it. The boy has told Neil that he has not had sex with another male, which Neil believes is true.

Asked how important the sexual aspect of the relationship was for him, Neil replied: ‘More important than it should be. When it happened it was quite unexpected. Before then I wouldn’t say that I was opposed to having sex, but certainly I doubted it would happen. I had no clear idea of the mechanics of it, not having had experience with anyone as young as that, or as small. I couldn’t visualise how it would happen anyway. He sort of prepared the way as he likes having wrestling matches and so gradually the wrestling became more and more involved. So it developed that way. I suppose that made it easier.’ Neil admits that he greatly enjoys the physical contact with the boy and wishes in a way that it was not as important to him as it has become. A possible solution would be to have sex with someone else (for example, a young adult of about eighteen) as a means to perhaps devaluing its importance with this particular boy. This is unlikely, however, because Neil sees the current relationship as one which should last for a long time and one that demands a measure of loyalty from him.

As regards the issue of responsibility, Neil says the boy that he is involved with is fully aware of what he is getting into and has been so from the beginning. He thinks that the boy has the situation more under control than he does. Neil believes that this boy will develop towards relationships with girls, although he feels that he may be basically bisexual. It is important that the boy sees the relationship as something to be proud of rather than ashamed of. He thinks the boy looks up to him and talks to others about him. He is concerned that he might cling too much to the boy at a later stage when the relationship is moving towards a natural ending with the boy beginning to expand his horizons. Even now Neil finds the relationship somewhat frightening and a strain in that ‘there is always the fear of losing him’. He sees this as somewhat irrational as there is nothing in the boy’s behaviour to justify these feelings.

Neil says he does not worry about the legal implications of his behaviour. He is not ashamed of his actions because ‘the boy wanted the involvement’ and ‘is not being harmed in any way’. With respect to his status as a paedophile, Neil says: ‘I suppose that overall I don’t regret it, but obviously I have good reason to wish it was not so. I would live an easier life.’

Before the relationship began Neil experienced feelings of guilt and frustration, wondering if a paedophilic relationship would be possible and how it might begin. As a child he appears to have been emotionally isolated and detached from other children. It was when he was about seventeen that he became aware of an interest in younger boys. He describes a memory of sitting down opposite a younger schoolmate in the dining-room and suddenly becoming aware of a ‘deep emotional desire for him’. He claims it was not a physical longing even though ‘it was his beauty that caused me to suffer the emotional involvement’. At that point he still thought of sex in terms of girls. As a result of an ‘inquisition’ by his father he came to realise the strength of his feelings towards males and subsequently that this was focused primarily on young boys.

Neil has seen a psychiatrist at the request of his parents. The consultation period was brief and he found it to be of little help. At some level he hoped that there might have been a ‘magical formula’ that would stop him feeling the way he did towards young boys. However, the psychiatrist’s main aim seemed to have been to get him to accept his homosexuality (which he felt he had already done). He is concerned about what will happen to him in the future, about ‘the likely prospect of reaching middle age and older and still being attracted to boys. I don’t see how one can have a good relationship. I don’t think it is even desirable for a middle-aged chap to have a relationship with boys. The trouble is that I can see that I will carry on exactly in the same way.... I can’t see any way that the drive in that direction is going to stop. . . . This is what worries me.’ In the case of his present relationship he does not feel that the age difference is great enough to be ‘grotesque’. He recognises that he may change as he grows older himself, but at present the idea of ‘a young boy going with a middle-aged man’ does not appeal to him. He sees himself as living for his present relationship, and ‘the question is where do I go from there? When he grows up what do I do then? Do I start again with someone else? By then I will be a damn sight older. I must admit that it does amaze me that I find a boy so attractive. I do wonder why he should have this strange effect.’

Neil’s ambivalence towards his condition was highlighted in various other comments. ‘I think that in the end I shall probably regret what has happened. I don’t regret the relationship at all but I regret the fact that by allowing myself to go in this direction I am depriving myself of marriage and a family, which I would like.... But getting married would be a risk; it might not work out. I would be repressing myself, to no purpose.

Neil also indicated that he disagreed with the aims of PIE in that he rejects the idea that adults should have a ‘carte blanche’ with children. Such a privilege would very likely be abused. He is concerned about the attitude of the organisation towards sex with children as he thinks it reflects self-interests which do not respect the needs of the children involved. Children, he feels, do need to be protected to some extent.

S55:      ‘Peter’

This interview took place over two sessions but for present purposes these will be summarised together. Peter was relaxed throughout the interview and showed no inhibition in discussing his situation. Physically he was small in stature, with mid-length hair and a short beard. He was twenty-two years old, and came to the interview neatly dressed. Due to his work in the airline industry he has been able to pursue his paedophilic interests in countries where it is not illegal. He provided a great deal of information regarding the situation of paedophiles in countries like the Philippines where he has spent considerable time. He gives the impression of an individual who has adjusted well to his circumstances and expresses no desire to change. He requested a second interview as he felt there was more information he could provide that would be of use to us and expressed concern that we might not be getting the whole picture of paedophilia. He brought photographs, many taken by him, of boys that he considered attractive.

Peter indicated that his sexual interests are exclusively homosexual and directed almost entirely towards young boys, although he has had sex with adults in the past. The age range which he finds attractive is 10-16 with the prime age being thirteen. With respect to physical qualities, Peter expresses a desire for boys who are slim, have long hair and a minimal amount of body hair. Psychological qualities which are regarded as attractive in children include devotion, gentleness, loyalty, eagerness to learn and curiosity. ‘They don’t seem to have all the hang-ups that adults do.’

Peter currently lives with his parents and says they have known about his homosexual interests since he was fifteen. At this time he became friends with a group of gays who were living next to his family’s home. On one occasion he attended a party at their house which resulted in a police investigation in which he was questioned about what the men had done to him. Therefore, he says, ‘I have had experience on both sides of the fence.’ Although the police were attempting to prosecute the men involved, neither Peter nor his parents wished to bring charges.

At this stage in his life Peter had a girlfriend as well as being involved with other men. Over the next few years, however, he found his sexual interests beginning to focus almost exclusively on young boys. Although he had always found young boys generally attractive it was when he was about eighteen that they became physically attractive to him. Peter’s parents apparently tolerate his paedophilic behaviour fairly well; although they do not openly condone it, they do allow him to bring boys into the house during the day. His mother is described as being dominating and bossy while his father is quiet and easy-going. Their relationship is said to be good and they seldom argue. They have an open attitude towards sexuality and appear to have discussed the topic with him. His early sexual experience was one of mutual exploration carried out with a female cousin.

Peter’s sphere of activity has been considerably expanded by recent trips abroad to countries like the Philippines, which he describes as ‘probably the best place in the world for a paedophile to live’. According to Peter, there is no minimum age of consent in the Philippines and sex between adult men and young boys goes on quite openly. Among other countries he has visited which he regards as more liberal with respect to paedophilia are Thailand and Mauritius. In Britain it is possible to have a relationship with a boy, but it is made difficult by the intense suspicion aroused by any contact between men and boys. Peter has had his home raided by the police in a search for pornographic material or anything else that might incriminate him. Some information obtained by the police led to the questioning of a boy with whom Peter had been involved, in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain a conviction. As a consequence, he is now careful not to write down any names or addresses, or to keep letters that might be used against him.

Despite this fear of prosecution, Peter does find it possible to have relations with boys in England and provides as an example an involvement he had with the son of friends of the family which lasted for three years. The termination of such relation-ships ‘is sort of a mutual thing really, because most of the boys I have been with are heterosexual’. The boy becomes interested in girls and Peter loses sexual interest in them as they grow up, although the friendship usually remains. As to the effect that such a relationship will have on the boy, Peter believes that it will frequently be positive as it teaches them something about the development of relationships and caring about somebody other than themselves. This is seen to be of benefit in future heterosexual relationships.

With respect to his future Peter entertains the possibility that he might get married and have children of his own. This could only occur if the woman was aware of his interest in children.

Fantasy plays an important role in Peter’s sex life, particularly when he is in England where he does not have any relationships with boys at the moment. Now that he is travelling a lot he finds it possible to develop relationships where it is more acceptable. Peter thinks it likely that someday he will leave England and live in a country like Denmark where he believes the attitudes towards paedophilia are more liberal.

Peter expressed distaste for violence inflicted upon children, maintaining that the real paedophile loves children. ‘People seem to associate violence against children with paedophilia. If somebody attacks a boy, rapes him, or murders him, they automatically assume that person is a paedophile because it’s a boy. It’s like saying that if a heterosexual man goes out and rapes a woman, you’ve got to ban heterosexuality.’ Whereas the public imagine that paedophiles prey on boys, usually it is the child who initiates the sexual contact and is the more adventurous party in the relationship.

Peter estimates that he has been involved in relationships with between twenty and thirty boys, the majority outside England. Generally he feels good about his paedophilic interests, while acknowledging that in this country it would be better if he wasn’t one. He expresses no desire to change his behaviour although at the request of his parents he has seen a psychiatrist briefly. This experience he describes as ‘boring’. He does not believe there is any ‘cure’ for paedophilia. He does believe it is possible for a paedophile to be involved with children without sexual contact, ‘because a lot of it depends on a person’s sex drive’.

In the second interview Peter began by presenting pictures of boys that he found attractive, some of which he had taken himself. They were mostly of boys in Scandinavia and the Philippines. He went on to describe his activities in the Philippines in some detail. In particular, he talked about the village of Pagsajan which he calls ‘the boy-lovers’ capital of the world’. His paedophilic lifestyle appears to be completely open while he is there. Boys stay with the paedophiles for long periods with the consent of their parents. Peter described meeting the families of many of the boys he has been involved with there and the way in which they openly condone his involvement with their children.

Peter also cited some movies that paedophiles have found particularly enjoyable. Examples are Death in Venice, The Champ, and The Last Snows of Spring. In providing examples of child movie stars who are idolised by paedophiles he remarked that ‘on physical attraction the one area of a boy that will attract us is his backside; that is the main area of attraction. A boy in a pair of jeans like that [looking at a picture of a young boy] is attractive.’ Looking at a picture of two child stars he notes that these boys became a cult with paedophiles as ‘they symbolise everything that most guys look for in a boy’.

S62:      ‘Garry’

Garry is small in stature and looks quite young for his stated age of thirty-nine. He described himself as being unemployed. Although he was willing to talk about his life as a paedophile, initially he was somewhat concerned about the security involved. A further concern was that we were attempting to determine the causes of paedophilia for the purposes of treatment, which we were able to persuade him was not our intention.

Garry indicated that his paedophilic interests are homosexual with boys about the age of ten being most attractive to him, although he admits to being attracted to boys aged 2-18 years. When asked what it is about a ten-year-old boy that attracts him Garry replied that the physical aspect is the initial attraction. Smallness in stature, physical vitality and healthy complexion were cited as important. Garry claimed to be particularly attracted to black children and thought this was because he associated the skin colour with health in some way. He did not feel sexually attracted to all children, especially not those who are ‘slothful or lazy’. This highly prized physical vitality is also identified by Garry in some adult men and women, although in them it is not seen as a sexual attraction. With adults his feelings are ‘appreciative’ rather than sexual.

Psychologically, children are enjoyed for their lack of respect for convention, their openness in expressing their feelings. In describing the initial meeting with a child Garry states: ‘It is quite likely that a child would speak to me first so that there would be some sort of rapport established. I find that very much easier between myself and a child than it would be with an adult. A child would be much more honest in the things he says. For instance, if he doesn’t like you he will make it quite clear, and that’s it.’

Although Garry has had sex with adult women he has not found it a satisfying experience. He was involved in one relationship that lasted for about eighteen months. With respect to sex with women he states: ‘While in itself it was satisfying, I felt that very often I had to pretend while I was having sex with her. I had to fantasise that it was a little boy during the actual sexual act. But I must admit I quite enjoyed the time before that

- the erotic play.’ This heterosexual involvement is viewed as being mainly the result of a feeling of guilt about being paedophilic. If given the choice Garry would want to be exclusively paedophilic.

Garry’s first sexual experience was masturbation which initially involved fantasy directed at people in general. How-ever, at about the age of thirteen he became aware that the object of fantasy had become boys younger than himself - an interest which has remained to the present. As a boy of nine he was involved with a boy of fourteen, although he did not find this very sexual or pleasant; the older boy he describes as being ‘clumsy’. He has been aware of being paedophile in his sexual orientation since about the age of thirteen. He did have some contacts with adult homosexuals at this time in his life, although these are described as being very rare.

At this point Garry was asked about relations with his parents, to which he replied: ‘Are you interested in the aetiology of paedophilia and if so, why?’ He was clearly suspicious of psychiatrists who might want to ‘cure’ paedophilia. It was necessary to reassure him that this was not our concern, that we were interested only in studying the paedophilic lifestyle without passing judgement or making any attempt to change their behaviour.

He described himself as being close to his parents. His mother was pictured as being outgoing and active, whereas his father was a quiet man. It would appear that he had a good relationship with his parents, although he received no sex education from them and learned about it through his peers.

Garry claimed to have been involved with approximately forty children with whom the relationship was extended over time and moved towards a sexual involvement. However, he states: ‘I’ve probably had some sort of contact with children which has been sexual, in my mind at least, 200 or possibly about 300 times. In most of these the child himself wouldn’t have realised that it was sexual because it is so timid. What I mean by that is perhaps touching them up. They wouldn’t even realise that it was sexual in intention.’ Over the last ten years Garry admits to about 20-25 involvements with boys that have extended to sexual relationships. When asked to describe the sequence that a relationship might go through he gave as an example a relationship that developed approximately ten years ago. While walking to work he had noticed a child whom he described as being ‘quite sexually attractive to me’. At the time Garry happened to be without a place to live, and on looking at a notice board he saw a room for rent close to where he thought the boy lived. It turned out, in fact, that the boy lived in the very same house with his mother and younger brother. Over the first two years their relationship was essentially non-sexual; they just did things together like going out shopping. The relationship became sexual with an approach by the child when he asked Garry if he could sleep with him, which he did. This was the beginning of a sexual relationship which lasted for two years and ended only when the family moved to Canada. By that time Garry had become involved sexually with the younger boy as well. He felt that the mother had some idea of what was going on although she did not openly acknowledge this. Garry has maintained contact with this family despite their leaving England. The older boy has since married and had a child to whom Garry is godfather.

This is seen as ideal in that, although the sexual relationship was brought to an end, the emotional attachment has remained. Not all relationships would come to an abrupt end as this one did, although there would be a gradual decrease in sexual involvement as the secondary sexual characteristics appeared in the child. Garry claims that one of his sexual relationships lasted until the boy was eighteen, although it had tempered somewhat due to the boy’s involvement with girls. Also, his own attraction is reduced by the appearance of pubic hair, and other maturational developments.

In response to the argument that paedophilic relationships are damaging to children, Garry maintained that being involved in a paedophilic relationship will certainly affect the child but in a way that he considers positive. By this he means that they will become more openly sexually and ‘develop in the direction that they should’, which might be homosexual if that is their natural orientation. It has been his experience, however, that none of the boys that he has been involved with in a long-term relationship has become homosexual (although he does feel that several are bisexual).

Long-term relationships are preferred by Garry to short involvements, with the initial attachment being emotional and the sexual aspect coming later. It is quite possible that in any given relationship the sexual part of the relationship will not develop at all. As to how it might be initiated, Garry says: ‘I don’t think it’s entirely their instigation. I wouldn’t say that I don’t put out feelers, but they are often so vague and could be interpreted in different ways by the boys, that something would have to register in his mind for it to become sexual.’ If the child does not want this type of involvement then it should not be forced upon them, according to Garry. He illustrates this with his own situation, in that until recently approximately twenty children were visiting his house regularly, and he was only involved sexually with four of them. Most of the others were not even aware of his sexual interest, although they were still welcome in the house. At this point Garry described most of his sexual relationships with children as involving masturbation and fellatio rather than anal intercourse.

When the issues surrounding the legal status of paedophilia were discussed, Garry revealed that a year before he had been given a three-month suspended sentence for activities relating to his paedophilic behaviour. He was actually charged with indecent assault, having been alleged to have placed his hand on the crotch of three children who were in his home. Since this time he has had to be very careful about allowing children into his home. Although his orientation is now known where he lives, he claims that many of his neighbours have been supportive towards him and still allow their children to visit him. This position seems to have been adopted particularly by those who know him well. One of his major concerns with respect to legal conviction, he says, is the effect it would have on his family, particularly his parents and sister. He is also concerned about the effect that a police investigation might have on the child. He does not feel that there should be an age-of-consent barrier. However, he says: ‘I do think there should be a restriction on people who act in a predatory way towards children and I think that’s something that’s present in all paedophiles, including myself. It’s looking at the child as an object. I think that attitude must be present in all adults to some extent. Most paedophiles are very aware of it, which is a good thing. But there are people who are predatory paedophiles, in the same way that there are predatory heterosexuals. There must be restrictions on their activities.’ If a child is physically assaulted then this should be treated according to the law of assault in the same way that such an act would be treated when physical, violent assault takes place against an adult.

Garry sees his paedophilic behaviour as an integrated and desirable part of his personality. The legal restrictions imposed by society are what disturb him, not his own behaviour. Following his conviction for indecent assault it was suggested that he seek psychiatric help, which he did. He has continued to see the psychiatrist occasionally as he is concerned about the court case against PIE that is pending. He fears that this might result in his being charged again. In this event it would be to his benefit to be under psychiatric care. He does not feel, however, that this consultation is changing his views on paedophilia and he does not attend in the hope of a ‘cure’.

S64:      ‘Harry’

Harry presented himself in clothing which suggested he had travelled to the interview on a motorbike. He looked to be in his mid-thirties. In general it was somewhat difficult to establish rapport with him. He seemed defensive about his position and ill at ease discussing it. He was not entirely friendly and I was hesitant to push the questioning too far.

Harry indicated that his sexual preference is heterosexual with the ideal age being about twelve, and the range of attractive girls being about 9-22 years. Asked what aspect of children attracts him Harry had difficulty providing any other descriptor than ‘openness’. When this was pursued it emerged that he does have sex with adults. ‘In some ways I’m the real libertarian.’ The age barrier of twenty-two was then revealed to be highly flexible as women of forty and over were described as being attractive. He mentioned a seventy-two-year-old woman who had developed a community in North London for the purposes of ‘sexual sharing’, and as an aside remarked: ‘I also know a little French boy of six or seven who’s just gone back to France.... In other words, you know, they’re just people.’ Pressed again as to what aspect of children he found attractive, Harry claimed the question was meaningless since he found sex with adults equally satisfying. Again the word ‘libertarian was used to describe those who accept this position.

Asked how old was the youngest individual he had ever been involved with sexually, Harry outlined his initial sexual experiences as a young boy with girls of his own age in experiences of ‘mutual discovery’. On more direct questioning he indicated that as an adult the youngest child that he has been involved with sexually was eight. But as noted above, he has also had sex with adults, including some older than himself.

Harry’s relationship with his parents was described as ‘fine’ and his sex education ‘conventional’. His mother was ‘very knowledgeable and hard-working’. His father died of cancer when he was fourteen. He did not have any brothers or sisters. By this time the interview had become very bogged down since Harry, unlike most of the other paedophiles interviewed, seemed reluctant to volunteer any information. Asked what relationships he had had with children, he said: ‘It’s going back some time. I really can’t recall them all. I’m somewhat inhibited about talking about it. There was Charlie, and he was twelve years old, or something like that. I met him, you know, and he used to come home, etc., etc.’

Asked how he made his contacts with children, Harry said: ‘I would be, say, working on the motorbike outside the house, or something like that, and a child would come along and say he’d got a problem with his bicycle or something, and the relationship would develop from there. A child I brought home once was through meeting the parents, you know that way -there’s all these variants.’ Sometimes, he said, he would get to know a child but the relationship would not develop sexually at all; it would remain strictly a friendship. Over his adult life Harry says he has been involved in about five relationships with children that developed sexually.

A typical pattern that a relationship might follow was then described. ‘Take Shelley; she was a young girl. I think I met her when she was about seven. I used to have a relationship with her mother, actually. I used to go to her place and she used to run around in the nude, and that sort of thing. You must understand her mother was liberal about that sort of thing. So she wanted to see me in the nude one day when her mother was out. I said yes. That would be one particular relationship. She was an only child and her mother was a very liberal sort of person - very libertarian, women’s libbish sort of thing. In that particular case, in fact, she tailed off, and Ijust see the mother and the child and there is no sexual relationship at all. I just go as a friend, although the child still runs around in the nude sometimes.’ That relationship continued on a sexual basis for approximately a year involving perhaps twenty-five meetings with the child. Asked if the mother was aware of the situation, Harry replied:

‘Yeah, in some ways, because the girl used to jump in the bath with me.’

Harry then described a relationship with an eleven-year-old boy ‘who used to come round and he got hold of some magazines I used to have. He was a very open child, very vocal, very inquisitive, that sort of thing, and we would strip off, that’s all about that.’

Once again Harry was asked what kind of children he found sexually appealing. He used the adjectives ‘attractive’ and ‘energetic’. He said that coercion is not a part of his approach to children and that relationships need to develop spontaneously.

Asked if he fantasised about children, Harry indicated that he did, although apparently not very often - ‘maybe once a week or not for three months’. These fantasies would generally be based on children that he had seen.

Harry does not think it likely that the legal restrictions concerning relationships between adults and children will change in the near future. If such changes did occur he would want to continue to have ‘just normal relationships, well the relationships (I won’t say they’re normal or abnormal) that I already have’. He does feel, however, that society is moving in a direction which may be more permissive concerning adult-child relationships.

When asked if he felt that being involved in a paedophilic relationship would affect a child in any way, Harry said that he could not know since he had not lived in a society where such an event was an accepted part of the lifestyle. Asked specifically about possible effects upon his own partners, he replied: ‘I don’t know. How do I know whether they benefited or not?’ His position was that these children are influenced by much greater forces, such as deprived living conditions, compared with which the effects of a paedophilic involvement are really quite minimal. On the basis of his own experience he did not think it likely that such relationships have a detrimental effect.

Harry’s feelings about his preference for children were expressed as follows: ‘I would like to think I was blasé about it. If I cared I would be neurotic.... I’d always be tense and nervous. I don’t flout it around. I realise I’m not alone, there’s thousands of other people like me.’ He does not believe there is anything morally wrong with being a paedophile.

Returning to an earlier line of questioning, Harry was asked what kind of sexual activity might be entered into with a child. ‘The conventional sexual things that people do with a child’ was his answer. Asked specifically if this would include sexual intercourse with a young girl, he said: ‘No, actually I never managed sexual intercourse with a young girl. It’s feasible though; I could see it happening.’

Harry would like to see the law changed such that people could see and do what they wished. This would include legalising pornography and allowing children to enter into sexual relationships with adults if they so desired. With respect to the concern that children don’t know entirely what is good for them, he notes that in those countries where laws regarding the age of consent are not so strict children do not appear to be damaged in any meaningful way. Children are motivated by curiosity and discovery, he says, and do not worry about moral or legal issues. If he was to live in a country where sex with children was legal it is not clear whether he would be exclusively paedophilic. Even in that context he considers it possible that he might enter into a heterosexual relationship in marriage, although he expresses no respect for the family unit.

At this point it was revealed that Harry had been involved with a man when he was a boy. He was thirteen when it began, and it continued for three years, during which time the sexual involvement was sustained. The man was a dentist and had a wife and daughter. He remembers how strange it felt as a child that a man of such social standing should be interested in him. He acknowledged other involvements with adults when he was a child, but described them as ‘one-offs’. He does not view these experiences as having been detrimental to his development.

 S81:      ‘Derek’

Derek was very relaxed throughout the interview and very willing to discuss his paedophile interests. Physically he is tall and, although forty-seven years old, gives the impression of an individual who does not want to be closely associated with those of his own generation. He appeared completely at ease with his lifestyle and did not seem to be withholding any information that he felt would be of interest, which made talking to him very easy. In his capacity as a social worker he comes into close contact with boys of the age range that he finds sexually attractive, but because of the obvious risks involved he makes an effort to refrain from any paedophilic activity. He is currently living in a house with a young couple. When the young man was a boy, Derek had a paedophilic relationship with him, of which the wife is aware.

Derek says that what attracts him in children is very much in line with what he hears heterosexuals describing as attractive. He acknowledges two components to evaluating a boy - the psychological and the physical. Derek is exclusively homosexual in his interests. Although the physical qualities of the boy that are attractive will disappear as that boy grows up, Derek makes a distinction that is important to him in this regard. ‘The most attractive age of an English boy is about fourteen, but if the boy sort of sticks with me he’s still attractive to me. Brian and I related till he was near enough eighteen. I couldn’t possibly start going with a boy of seventeen to eighteen; I just wouldn’t want to know. But because I knew Brian since he was a kid, it was a different thing. It was a special relationship.’ The point is made that it is not just looks that are important, although the physical attraction is most important initially. The boy must be ‘mentally attractive’. ‘I like kids gentle really, a sort of gentle nature. I don’t like aggressive people. Normally it’s as much the nature as the looks. The looks are the initial thing, the same as it is when a bloke looks at a girl. The appearance is the initial interest. But then you’ve got to get to know the person.

The discussion then centred on Derek’s relationship with Brian. This continued on a sexual basis until Brian was eighteen and developed heterosexual interests. Derek thinks most boys go through a period of development in which they experience homosexual interests which will last for varying lengths of time depending on the individual. He thinks it likely that if Brian had not developed heterosexual interests the relationship might have continued for longer. This would have occurred despite the fact that Derek does not normally find himself attracted to adult males.

Derek has been involved in two long-term relationships, both of which lasted for five years. In both cases the boys concerned developed heterosexual interests and have since married. The wife of one of these boys does not know of this previous relationship, whereas Brian’s wife does know and supposedly feels quite positive about it as a past experience. ‘There are people I’ve known for many years and I didn’t tell, but over the last few years quite a lot of them have got to know. I’ve not bothered to hide it any more, and it doesn’t make any difference. Instinct tells me who I can tell and who I can’t.’ It seems that all of Brian’s family are aware of his previous involvement with Derek and do not seem to be particularly bothered by it. Derek describes himself as being on good terms with the family in general.

As a social worker Derek frequently comes into contact with young boys who present behaviour problems. In this context he is careful to watch his behaviour, although he is aware that there is a certain amount of suspicion from some of his co-workers concerning his possible homosexuality. He takes care to avoid behaviours that he feels give him away, especially running and throwing.

Derek admits certain immature aspects to his personality. ‘In a lot of ways I’ve never grown up. I can enjoy the things, although I’m forty-seven years old, that kids enjoy. . . . I’ve been called the original Peter Pan by one or two people as a joke. In some respects I’m not emotionally grown-up.’ Derek finds that when he takes part in games with children, as occurs sometimes in his work, he often enjoys them to the same extent as the children. Despite this mutual fun with children, he says he has never been sexually involved with children in his care.

At this point it emerged that, when he was twenty-one, Derek served a three-year prison sentence for ‘gross indecency’ with a small boy. Over the period that he has worked in his present job there have been a few children that he has found attractive and he has avoided contact with them. ‘In any case I never twist anybody’s arm. I will create the opportunity and wait and see what the results are, but I’ve never persuaded them to do anything they didn’t want to do. Once I’ve made it obvious I’ve got an interest, having decided there isn’t a great deal of risk to it, then if there’s been no response then fair enough, that’s it. It must be a two-way thing, otherwise it is of no interest to me.

Following his prison term Derek changed his name and did not go back to the area where he had been living. ‘I literally built a new life.’ He describes himself as having been foolish at the time and that if he knew then what he knows now he could have got off. He also claims that he was very much in love with the boy at the time.

Derek says that sex was seldom discussed by his parents, especially not his father. He left home at fifteen years old, and his parents never discussed his conviction with him. He describes himself as having been a terror at school, which he left early. His first sexual experiences were with other boys in boarding school. He has tried to get involved with women but found them unsatisfying. ‘It doesn’t do a thing for me.’

Prior to his two long-term relationships Derek had many relationships that went on for a few months but ‘never a really lasting one’. For the last four years he has not had any real relationships at all. ‘Things are tougher now than they used to be, mainly because people are so conscious.... Any kid that would like to have a relationship is scared stiff to do so in case his friends find out, whereas at one time, before “gay lib” and that kind of thing, it was something that was hardly ever thought or talked about.’

Derek has travelled to the Philippines and planned to spend a month there during his next holidays. ‘That is absolutely fantastic. I’ve never felt so free in my life.’ He went on to describe the way of life in the Philippines which makes it a ‘paradise’, particularly the openness towards paedophilia. He had formed relationships which were openly condoned by the parents. Although paedophilia was very common in this society, he claims there was no excess of adult homosexuality. This he took to be evidence that homosexual contact in childhood was not irrevocably corrupting with respect to sex orientation. Derek has considered moving to the Philippines, but admits that this would be a difficult cultural adjustment.

As Derek is not currently involved in a relationship, fantasy was acknowledged as important to him. He has some films and ‘not so much fantasies as memories’ about past relationships. In talking about a possible future relationship in the Philippines he indicates that what would appeal to him in particular is a boy whom he thinks is basically homosexual. Derek thinks he can tell whether a boy will eventually develop a heterosexual orientation or remain homosexual. Such things as attitudes, interests and sexual behaviour contain clues which he feels predict the sexual orientation that will eventually prevail.

Asked about the legal restrictions placed on paedophilic behaviour, Derek said: ‘They’re bloody stupid really.’ He claims that the child who seeks a sexual relationship and is forced into an experience with a boy his own age is likely to be emotionally hurt because there will be no sense of commitment. The paedophilic relationship he believes is a ‘safer’ relationship. ‘There’s no way I would ever hurt a kid’s feelings.’ The paedophile would want to continue the relationship whereas another child would probably just be after a one-off encounter.

Derek questions the assumptions that children do not know what is good for them and need to be protected and that they will be damaged by being involved in paedophilic relationships. In his experience there is no indication that boys involved with a paedophile are more likely to be homosexual in adulthood. He agrees that no child should be forced into a relationship, but if they wish to have such a relationship they should be allowed to do so. Britain is seen as being particularly repressive in its attitudes towards paedophilia, not only as compared with countries like the Philippines but also other European countries like Sweden and France where attitudes are described as being more liberal even though it is still illegal.

Derek has never sought any professional help for his paedophilia because he ‘can’t see the point’. While in prison he did see a psychiatrist but this was a futile exercise done to satisfy the authorities. ‘There’s no way you can change, and the sooner you bloody well realise that the better adjusted to life you become. You have to accept it, you’re different and that’s it.’ Derek feels that attempts to change sexual orientation very often result in tremendous emotional upheaval for the person involved and ultimately cause a great deal of unhappiness. It is much better, he thinks, to leave people as they are in their sexual orientation rather than make a moral decision that they should change. In some countries such as Sweden children are seen as being much more mature in their behaviour and attitudes towards sexuality than are British children. The issue of protection of the child is also somewhat peculiar according to Derek, in that it implies that the child needs to be protected against himself since these are behaviours that he might want to engage in. He does not feel that lowering the age of consent will put children at any greater risk.

Derek then described how important he feels he has been in the life of the boy Brian with whom he was involved for five years. At the time that Brian met Derek he was having great difficulty at home and school and was generally very unsettled. Derek feels that his behaviour improved as a result of their relationship, such that he did better at school and subsequently found a good skilled job. In his opinion, the boy benefited greatly from his paedophilic encounter and yet he still developed a normal heterosexual relationship when he grew up.

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